Force Study

Hello!

I have made study of Elbow Flexion movement. I get a result that
seems funny to me. When the arm is straight down along the body (start
position) the force Fm of the Biceps breve muscle is the highest. When the
arm is flexed the most (you can feel the muscle is working when keeping
that position) the muscle force Fm is the lowest. It is logical to me
that the muscle should act the oposite way. The result can be seen in
the attached zipped files which are Bitmapes figures. One is Fm of
Biseps_brachii_caput_breve, the other is position of the FE joint.

Best Regards
Signe


Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Signe,

The moment arm of the biceps becomes very small when the elbow is
extended, so for some load conditions you can get large biceps
forces for this situation.

Attached files get stripped off when you send a message to the
group. To send files, please log into the group’s file section and
upload the file and we would be happy to take a look at it.

Best regards,
John

— In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@…>
wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> I have made study of Elbow Flexion movement. I get a result that
> seems funny to me. When the arm is straight down along the body
(start
> position) the force Fm of the Biceps breve muscle is the highest.
When the
> arm is flexed the most (you can feel the muscle is working when
keeping
> that position) the muscle force Fm is the lowest. It is logical to
me
> that the muscle should act the oposite way. The result can be seen
in
> the attached zipped files which are Bitmapes figures. One is Fm of
> Biseps_brachii_caput_breve, the other is position of the FE joint.
>
> Best Regards
> Signe
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hello John

I have uploaded the files in the file section as you told me. But now I will
send one more figure:

I have put together the result from inclinometer measurements, EMG
measurements and AnyBody studies in a matlab figure.

Measurement of the inclination of the forearm has been used as a driver in
AnyBody by using a frame in the wrist relative the global reference frame as a
measure. I have taken the position of the FE joint to compare the AnyBody result
with the input data. The inclination results has been devided with pi, and the
RMS results with the maximal measured activity during this measure, to be able
to put all results in the same figure.

Have a look!
There might be some displacement in time between the inclinometer measurements
and the EMG measurements.

Best Regards
Signe

AnyBody Support <support@anybodytech.com> wrote:
Hello Signe,

The moment arm of the biceps becomes very small when the elbow is
extended, so for some load conditions you can get large biceps
forces for this situation.

Attached files get stripped off when you send a message to the
group. To send files, please log into the group’s file section and
upload the file and we would be happy to take a look at it.

Best regards,
John

— In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@…>
wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> I have made study of Elbow Flexion movement. I get a result that
> seems funny to me. When the arm is straight down along the body
(start
> position) the force Fm of the Biceps breve muscle is the highest.
When the
> arm is flexed the most (you can feel the muscle is working when
keeping
> that position) the muscle force Fm is the lowest. It is logical to
me
> that the muscle should act the oposite way. The result can be seen
in
> the attached zipped files which are Bitmapes figures. One is Fm of
> Biseps_brachii_caput_breve, the other is position of the FE joint.
>
> Best Regards
> Signe
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the AnyBody Modeling
System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other users are welcome to join the
discussions.

SPONSORED LINKS
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 Visit your group "anyscript" on the web.

 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

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Yahoo! Mail
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Signe

I have taken a look at the graphs and the explanation, it looks at
bit strange that the acitivity from the model is out of phase with
the inclination. One reason could be acceleration forces, have you
checked the values of the segments in the arms? You may find them
in the model tree under segments as rDDot.

The activity from a model can be compared with EMG although the
height of the curves can not be compared directly. There is also a
phase shift because the muscles EMG will occur slightly before they
develop the force and activity.

If you continue to have problems please zip your model and upload it
and we will have a look at it.

Best regards
Søren AnyBoy Support

— In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@…>
wrote:
>
> Hello John
>
> I have uploaded the files in the file section as you told me.
But now I will send one more figure:
>
> I have put together the result from inclinometer measurements,
EMG measurements and AnyBody studies in a matlab figure.
>
> Measurement of the inclination of the forearm has been used as a
driver in AnyBody by using a frame in the wrist relative the global
reference frame as a measure. I have taken the position of the FE
joint to compare the AnyBody result with the input data. The
inclination results has been devided with pi, and the RMS results
with the maximal measured activity during this measure, to be able
to put all results in the same figure.
>
> Have a look!
> There might be some displacement in time between the
inclinometer measurements and the EMG measurements.
>
> Best Regards
> Signe
>
> AnyBody Support <support@…> wrote:
> Hello Signe,
>
> The moment arm of the biceps becomes very small when the elbow is
> extended, so for some load conditions you can get large biceps
> forces for this situation.
>
> Attached files get stripped off when you send a message to the
> group. To send files, please log into the group’s file section and
> upload the file and we would be happy to take a look at it.
>
> Best regards,
> John
>
>
>
> — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello!
> >
> > I have made study of Elbow Flexion movement. I get a result that
> > seems funny to me. When the arm is straight down along the body
> (start
> > position) the force Fm of the Biceps breve muscle is the
highest.
> When the
> > arm is flexed the most (you can feel the muscle is working when
> keeping
> > that position) the muscle force Fm is the lowest. It is logical
to
> me
> > that the muscle should act the oposite way. The result can be
seen
> in
> > the attached zipped files which are Bitmapes figures. One is Fm
of
> > Biseps_brachii_caput_breve, the other is position of the FE
joint.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Signe
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the AnyBody
Modeling System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other users
are welcome to join the discussions.
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Biomedical engineering degree Biomedical engineering
career Biomedical engineering program Biomedical engineering
schools Biomedical engineering jobs Biomedical engineering
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group “anyscript” on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> anyscript-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hello!

Now I have uploaded the model. The model was located in
Repository5.beta/ARep/Lund/…
From the start the folder was called StandingModel but I changed the name to
ElbowFlexion Model when I zipped it. Though I don’t think it makes any
difference.

I’m working with to different input data. One with loads in the hands and one
without.

//FileName = “filtElbowFlex.txt”; // with 4 kg loads in the hands
FileName = “filtNoW.txt”;// no loads

The one with loads works kinematically even when adding the driver of the GH
joint with the input data:

//FileName = “filtElbowFlexHumerus9mod.txt”;

The one without loads is the one that I sent figures of. Now I made a little
change in the Mannequin file, because I found there the following line:

AnyFolder Load = {
AnyVec3 TopVertebra = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};

AnyFolder Right = {
AnyVec3 Shoulder = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
AnyVec3 Elbow = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
AnyVec3 Hand = {0.000, 0.000, 150.000}; ???

So I wander why is there a load in the hand but no loads anywhere else. I
changed it to 0 load in the hand. But then the Dynamic Analysis didn’t give the
same result as before and a few seconds before the end it stopped.

Well, if you have time to look at it, please do. I thínk I need also some help
to add the weight to the hands as you recommended. I’m not sure in what file I
should make the changes.

Also I must say that the RMS data that I showed you might be wrong in time a
hole second. So from the matlab figure I sent you cannot compare it to the
AnyBody Result.

Best Regards,
Signe

AnyBody Support <support@anybodytech.com> wrote:
Hi Signe

I have taken a look at the graphs and the explanation, it looks at
bit strange that the acitivity from the model is out of phase with
the inclination. One reason could be acceleration forces, have you
checked the values of the segments in the arms? You may find them
in the model tree under segments as rDDot.

The activity from a model can be compared with EMG although the
height of the curves can not be compared directly. There is also a
phase shift because the muscles EMG will occur slightly before they
develop the force and activity.

If you continue to have problems please zip your model and upload it
and we will have a look at it.

Best regards
Søren AnyBoy Support

— In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@…>
wrote:
>
> Hello John
>
> I have uploaded the files in the file section as you told me.
But now I will send one more figure:
>
> I have put together the result from inclinometer measurements,
EMG measurements and AnyBody studies in a matlab figure.
>
> Measurement of the inclination of the forearm has been used as a
driver in AnyBody by using a frame in the wrist relative the global
reference frame as a measure. I have taken the position of the FE
joint to compare the AnyBody result with the input data. The
inclination results has been devided with pi, and the RMS results
with the maximal measured activity during this measure, to be able
to put all results in the same figure.
>
> Have a look!
> There might be some displacement in time between the
inclinometer measurements and the EMG measurements.
>
> Best Regards
> Signe
>
> AnyBody Support <support@…> wrote:
> Hello Signe,
>
> The moment arm of the biceps becomes very small when the elbow is
> extended, so for some load conditions you can get large biceps
> forces for this situation.
>
> Attached files get stripped off when you send a message to the
> group. To send files, please log into the group’s file section and
> upload the file and we would be happy to take a look at it.
>
> Best regards,
> John
>
>
>
> — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello!
> >
> > I have made study of Elbow Flexion movement. I get a result that
> > seems funny to me. When the arm is straight down along the body
> (start
> > position) the force Fm of the Biceps breve muscle is the
highest.
> When the
> > arm is flexed the most (you can feel the muscle is working when
> keeping
> > that position) the muscle force Fm is the lowest. It is logical
to
> me
> > that the muscle should act the oposite way. The result can be
seen
> in
> > the attached zipped files which are Bitmapes figures. One is Fm
of
> > Biseps_brachii_caput_breve, the other is position of the FE
joint.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Signe
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the AnyBody
Modeling System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other users
are welcome to join the discussions.
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Biomedical engineering degree Biomedical engineering
career Biomedical engineering program Biomedical engineering
schools Biomedical engineering jobs Biomedical engineering
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group “anyscript” on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> anyscript-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail
> Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the AnyBody Modeling
System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other users are welcome to join the
discussions.

SPONSORED LINKS
Biomedical engineering degree Biomedical engineering career
Biomedical engineering program Biomedical engineering schools Biomedical
engineering jobs Biomedical engineering


YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

 Visit your group "anyscript" on the web.

 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

anyscript-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Signe

I have tried your model and the accellerations i was worreid about
looks ok.

The standing model you have used as basis for the model can have
loads applied in the hands, controlled from the manekin file. In
your case they should be removed of course, when you remove these
forces it will change the results.

When you write that it stops a few seconds before the end what is
the error message?

The best way to add the weights to the hands are by creating two new
segments with the proper interia and weigth and attach them to the
hands using a AnyStdJoint between the hands and the weights. This
joint will lock all six dof’s. When the weights has been added you
need to add them to the COMDriver measure in the jointsanddriver.any
file.
Currently in this measure you will find a reference to the entire
human model, you need to add two references one to each of the
weights. When this is done the Com measure will also take into
account the weights in the hands.

If your RMS EMG data is one second out of phase the results looks
much more resonable.

Best regards
Søren AnyBody support

— In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@…>
wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> Now I have uploaded the model. The model was located in
Repository5.beta/ARep/Lund/…
> From the start the folder was called StandingModel but I changed
the name to ElbowFlexion Model when I zipped it. Though I don’t
think it makes any difference.
>
> I’m working with to different input data. One with loads in the
hands and one without.
>
> //FileName = “filtElbowFlex.txt”; // with 4 kg loads in the hands
> FileName = “filtNoW.txt”;// no loads
>
> The one with loads works kinematically even when adding the
driver of the GH joint with the input data:
>
> //FileName = “filtElbowFlexHumerus9mod.txt”;
>
> The one without loads is the one that I sent figures of. Now I
made a little change in the Mannequin file, because I found there
the following line:
>
> AnyFolder Load = {
> AnyVec3 TopVertebra = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
>
> AnyFolder Right = {
> AnyVec3 Shoulder = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
> AnyVec3 Elbow = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
> AnyVec3 Hand = {0.000, 0.000, 150.000}; ???
>
> So I wander why is there a load in the hand but no loads
anywhere else. I changed it to 0 load in the hand. But then the
Dynamic Analysis didn’t give the same result as before and a few
seconds before the end it stopped.
>
> Well, if you have time to look at it, please do. I thínk I need
also some help to add the weight to the hands as you recommended.
I’m not sure in what file I should make the changes.
>
> Also I must say that the RMS data that I showed you might be
wrong in time a hole second. So from the matlab figure I sent you
cannot compare it to the AnyBody Result.
>
> Best Regards,
> Signe
>
>
>
> AnyBody Support <support@…> wrote:
> Hi Signe
>
> I have taken a look at the graphs and the explanation, it looks at
> bit strange that the acitivity from the model is out of phase with
> the inclination. One reason could be acceleration forces, have you
> checked the values of the segments in the arms? You may find them
> in the model tree under segments as rDDot.
>
> The activity from a model can be compared with EMG although the
> height of the curves can not be compared directly. There is also a
> phase shift because the muscles EMG will occur slightly before
they
> develop the force and activity.
>
> If you continue to have problems please zip your model and upload
it
> and we will have a look at it.
>
> Best regards
> Søren AnyBoy Support
>
> — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello John
> >
> > I have uploaded the files in the file section as you told me.
> But now I will send one more figure:
> >
> > I have put together the result from inclinometer measurements,
> EMG measurements and AnyBody studies in a matlab figure.
> >
> > Measurement of the inclination of the forearm has been used as
a
> driver in AnyBody by using a frame in the wrist relative the
global
> reference frame as a measure. I have taken the position of the FE
> joint to compare the AnyBody result with the input data. The
> inclination results has been devided with pi, and the RMS results
> with the maximal measured activity during this measure, to be able
> to put all results in the same figure.
> >
> > Have a look!
> > There might be some displacement in time between the
> inclinometer measurements and the EMG measurements.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Signe
> >
> > AnyBody Support <support@> wrote:
> > Hello Signe,
> >
> > The moment arm of the biceps becomes very small when the elbow
is
> > extended, so for some load conditions you can get large biceps
> > forces for this situation.
> >
> > Attached files get stripped off when you send a message to the
> > group. To send files, please log into the group’s file section
and
> > upload the file and we would be happy to take a look at it.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen
<signejeppesen@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > I have made study of Elbow Flexion movement. I get a result
that
> > > seems funny to me. When the arm is straight down along the
body
> > (start
> > > position) the force Fm of the Biceps breve muscle is the
> highest.
> > When the
> > > arm is flexed the most (you can feel the muscle is working
when
> > keeping
> > > that position) the muscle force Fm is the lowest. It is
logical
> to
> > me
> > > that the muscle should act the oposite way. The result can be
> seen
> > in
> > > the attached zipped files which are Bitmapes figures. One is
Fm
> of
> > > Biseps_brachii_caput_breve, the other is position of the FE
> joint.
> > >
> > > Best Regards
> > > Signe
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Mail
> > > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the
AnyBody
> Modeling System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other users
> are welcome to join the discussions.
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Biomedical engineering degree Biomedical engineering
> career Biomedical engineering program Biomedical engineering
> schools Biomedical engineering jobs Biomedical engineering
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group “anyscript” on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > anyscript-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the AnyBody
Modeling System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other users
are welcome to join the discussions.
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Biomedical engineering degree Biomedical engineering
career Biomedical engineering program Biomedical engineering
schools Biomedical engineering jobs Biomedical engineering
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group “anyscript” on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> anyscript-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hello!

I have now added the weights in the hands as two segments connected to the
hands with an AnyStdJoint. I have added the segments to the measure in the
COMDriver. Then I tried the modell with inclinometer data for both upper arm and
forearm. Without muscles everything works fine, but I cannot make it work with
muscles. I have tried to increase the SPLine.StringMesh for some muscles, but
then I get the Error, that solution doesn’t satisfy all constraints, instead. I
will send the new modell in the file StandingModel.zip, if you can just make it
work somehow.

Best Regards
Signe

AnyBody Support <support@anybodytech.com> wrote:
Hi Signe

I have tried your model and the accellerations i was worreid about
looks ok.

The standing model you have used as basis for the model can have
loads applied in the hands, controlled from the manekin file. In
your case they should be removed of course, when you remove these
forces it will change the results.

When you write that it stops a few seconds before the end what is
the error message?

The best way to add the weights to the hands are by creating two new
segments with the proper interia and weigth and attach them to the
hands using a AnyStdJoint between the hands and the weights. This
joint will lock all six dof’s. When the weights has been added you
need to add them to the COMDriver measure in the jointsanddriver.any
file.
Currently in this measure you will find a reference to the entire
human model, you need to add two references one to each of the
weights. When this is done the Com measure will also take into
account the weights in the hands.

If your RMS EMG data is one second out of phase the results looks
much more resonable.

Best regards
Søren AnyBody support

— In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@…>
wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> Now I have uploaded the model. The model was located in
Repository5.beta/ARep/Lund/…
> From the start the folder was called StandingModel but I changed
the name to ElbowFlexion Model when I zipped it. Though I don’t
think it makes any difference.
>
> I’m working with to different input data. One with loads in the
hands and one without.
>
> //FileName = “filtElbowFlex.txt”; // with 4 kg loads in the hands
> FileName = “filtNoW.txt”;// no loads
>
> The one with loads works kinematically even when adding the
driver of the GH joint with the input data:
>
> //FileName = “filtElbowFlexHumerus9mod.txt”;
>
> The one without loads is the one that I sent figures of. Now I
made a little change in the Mannequin file, because I found there
the following line:
>
> AnyFolder Load = {
> AnyVec3 TopVertebra = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
>
> AnyFolder Right = {
> AnyVec3 Shoulder = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
> AnyVec3 Elbow = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
> AnyVec3 Hand = {0.000, 0.000, 150.000}; ???
>
> So I wander why is there a load in the hand but no loads
anywhere else. I changed it to 0 load in the hand. But then the
Dynamic Analysis didn’t give the same result as before and a few
seconds before the end it stopped.
>
> Well, if you have time to look at it, please do. I thínk I need
also some help to add the weight to the hands as you recommended.
I’m not sure in what file I should make the changes.
>
> Also I must say that the RMS data that I showed you might be
wrong in time a hole second. So from the matlab figure I sent you
cannot compare it to the AnyBody Result.
>
> Best Regards,
> Signe
>
>
>
> AnyBody Support <support@…> wrote:
> Hi Signe
>
> I have taken a look at the graphs and the explanation, it looks at
> bit strange that the acitivity from the model is out of phase with
> the inclination. One reason could be acceleration forces, have you
> checked the values of the segments in the arms? You may find them
> in the model tree under segments as rDDot.
>
> The activity from a model can be compared with EMG although the
> height of the curves can not be compared directly. There is also a
> phase shift because the muscles EMG will occur slightly before
they
> develop the force and activity.
>
> If you continue to have problems please zip your model and upload
it
> and we will have a look at it.
>
> Best regards
> Søren AnyBoy Support
>
> — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello John
> >
> > I have uploaded the files in the file section as you told me.
> But now I will send one more figure:
> >
> > I have put together the result from inclinometer measurements,
> EMG measurements and AnyBody studies in a matlab figure.
> >
> > Measurement of the inclination of the forearm has been used as
a
> driver in AnyBody by using a frame in the wrist relative the
global
> reference frame as a measure. I have taken the position of the FE
> joint to compare the AnyBody result with the input data. The
> inclination results has been devided with pi, and the RMS results
> with the maximal measured activity during this measure, to be able
> to put all results in the same figure.
> >
> > Have a look!
> > There might be some displacement in time between the
> inclinometer measurements and the EMG measurements.
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Signe
> >
> > AnyBody Support <support@> wrote:
> > Hello Signe,
> >
> > The moment arm of the biceps becomes very small when the elbow
is
> > extended, so for some load conditions you can get large biceps
> > forces for this situation.
> >
> > Attached files get stripped off when you send a message to the
> > group. To send files, please log into the group’s file section
and
> > upload the file and we would be happy to take a look at it.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen
<signejeppesen@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > I have made study of Elbow Flexion movement. I get a result
that
> > > seems funny to me. When the arm is straight down along the
body
> > (start
> > > position) the force Fm of the Biceps breve muscle is the
> highest.
> > When the
> > > arm is flexed the most (you can feel the muscle is working
when
> > keeping
> > > that position) the muscle force Fm is the lowest. It is
logical
> to
> > me
> > > that the muscle should act the oposite way. The result can be
> seen
> > in
> > > the attached zipped files which are Bitmapes figures. One is
Fm
> of
> > > Biseps_brachii_caput_breve, the other is position of the FE
> joint.
> > >
> > > Best Regards
> > > Signe
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Mail
> > > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the
AnyBody
> Modeling System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other users
> are welcome to join the discussions.
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
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> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the AnyBody
Modeling System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other users
are welcome to join the discussions.
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Biomedical engineering degree Biomedical engineering
career Biomedical engineering program Biomedical engineering
schools Biomedical engineering jobs Biomedical engineering
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
>
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>
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>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Signe

I think the main problem is that you are using a beta version of the
repository. I have downloaded your model and inserted it into the
latest official version of the repository (www.anybody.aau.dk) and
it works fine although i did not run the analysis to the end (about
t=22sec.)

In your analysis you use 120 time steps and the arms do the motion
multiple times. I think it would be better if you lowered the end
time(tEnd) and maybee also the number of time steps. This would
allow you to zoom in on one or two cycles. With the current settings
the arms moves in very big steps for each time step, this can in
some cases lead to problems for the muscle wrapping algorithm. This
is because the wrapping uses the last solution as the initial guess
in the next step. So if you have wrapping problems less, motion for
each time step will improve the convergence of the wrapping
algorithm.

So please download the latest official release of the repository and
insert your model in there. When you do this it will complain about
some stuff related to the drawing of the model. Please copy the file
DrawSettings.any from one of the other models in the new repository
into your model folder, this will resolve this issue.

Another thing, please add a small quantity of gravity to the x and z
direction, it will not change your results but it makes the problem
less numerical demanding for the solver, so something like (1e-
4,9.81,1e-4) would be fine.

Best regards
Søren AnyBody Technology Support

— In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@…>
wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> I have now added the weights in the hands as two segments
connected to the hands with an AnyStdJoint. I have added the
segments to the measure in the COMDriver. Then I tried the modell
with inclinometer data for both upper arm and forearm. Without
muscles everything works fine, but I cannot make it work with
muscles. I have tried to increase the SPLine.StringMesh for some
muscles, but then I get the Error, that solution doesn’t satisfy all
constraints, instead. I will send the new modell in the file
StandingModel.zip, if you can just make it work somehow.
>
> Best Regards
> Signe
>
> AnyBody Support <support@…> wrote:
> Hi Signe
>
> I have tried your model and the accellerations i was worreid about
> looks ok.
>
> The standing model you have used as basis for the model can have
> loads applied in the hands, controlled from the manekin file. In
> your case they should be removed of course, when you remove these
> forces it will change the results.
>
> When you write that it stops a few seconds before the end what is
> the error message?
>
>
> The best way to add the weights to the hands are by creating two
new
> segments with the proper interia and weigth and attach them to the
> hands using a AnyStdJoint between the hands and the weights. This
> joint will lock all six dof’s. When the weights has been added you
> need to add them to the COMDriver measure in the
jointsanddriver.any
> file.
> Currently in this measure you will find a reference to the entire
> human model, you need to add two references one to each of the
> weights. When this is done the Com measure will also take into
> account the weights in the hands.
>
> If your RMS EMG data is one second out of phase the results looks
> much more resonable.
>
> Best regards
> Søren AnyBody support
>
> — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen <signejeppesen@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello!
> >
> > Now I have uploaded the model. The model was located in
> Repository5.beta/ARep/Lund/…
> > From the start the folder was called StandingModel but I changed
> the name to ElbowFlexion Model when I zipped it. Though I don’t
> think it makes any difference.
> >
> > I’m working with to different input data. One with loads in
the
> hands and one without.
> >
> > //FileName = “filtElbowFlex.txt”; // with 4 kg loads in the
hands
> > FileName = “filtNoW.txt”;// no loads
> >
> > The one with loads works kinematically even when adding the
> driver of the GH joint with the input data:
> >
> > //FileName = “filtElbowFlexHumerus9mod.txt”;
> >
> > The one without loads is the one that I sent figures of. Now I
> made a little change in the Mannequin file, because I found there
> the following line:
> >
> > AnyFolder Load = {
> > AnyVec3 TopVertebra = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
> >
> > AnyFolder Right = {
> > AnyVec3 Shoulder = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
> > AnyVec3 Elbow = {0.000, 0.000, 0.000};
> > AnyVec3 Hand = {0.000, 0.000, 150.000}; ???
> >
> > So I wander why is there a load in the hand but no loads
> anywhere else. I changed it to 0 load in the hand. But then the
> Dynamic Analysis didn’t give the same result as before and a few
> seconds before the end it stopped.
> >
> > Well, if you have time to look at it, please do. I thínk I
need
> also some help to add the weight to the hands as you recommended.
> I’m not sure in what file I should make the changes.
> >
> > Also I must say that the RMS data that I showed you might be
> wrong in time a hole second. So from the matlab figure I sent you
> cannot compare it to the AnyBody Result.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Signe
> >
> >
> >
> > AnyBody Support <support@> wrote:
> > Hi Signe
> >
> > I have taken a look at the graphs and the explanation, it looks
at
> > bit strange that the acitivity from the model is out of phase
with
> > the inclination. One reason could be acceleration forces, have
you
> > checked the values of the segments in the arms? You may find
them
> > in the model tree under segments as rDDot.
> >
> > The activity from a model can be compared with EMG although the
> > height of the curves can not be compared directly. There is also
a
> > phase shift because the muscles EMG will occur slightly before
> they
> > develop the force and activity.
> >
> > If you continue to have problems please zip your model and
upload
> it
> > and we will have a look at it.
> >
> > Best regards
> > Søren AnyBoy Support
> >
> > — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen
<signejeppesen@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello John
> > >
> > > I have uploaded the files in the file section as you told
me.
> > But now I will send one more figure:
> > >
> > > I have put together the result from inclinometer
measurements,
> > EMG measurements and AnyBody studies in a matlab figure.
> > >
> > > Measurement of the inclination of the forearm has been used
as
> a
> > driver in AnyBody by using a frame in the wrist relative the
> global
> > reference frame as a measure. I have taken the position of the
FE
> > joint to compare the AnyBody result with the input data. The
> > inclination results has been devided with pi, and the RMS
results
> > with the maximal measured activity during this measure, to be
able
> > to put all results in the same figure.
> > >
> > > Have a look!
> > > There might be some displacement in time between the
> > inclinometer measurements and the EMG measurements.
> > >
> > > Best Regards
> > > Signe
> > >
> > > AnyBody Support <support@> wrote:
> > > Hello Signe,
> > >
> > > The moment arm of the biceps becomes very small when the elbow
> is
> > > extended, so for some load conditions you can get large biceps
> > > forces for this situation.
> > >
> > > Attached files get stripped off when you send a message to the
> > > group. To send files, please log into the group’s file section
> and
> > > upload the file and we would be happy to take a look at it.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, Signe Jeppesen
> <signejeppesen@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello!
> > > >
> > > > I have made study of Elbow Flexion movement. I get a result
> that
> > > > seems funny to me. When the arm is straight down along the
> body
> > > (start
> > > > position) the force Fm of the Biceps breve muscle is the
> > highest.
> > > When the
> > > > arm is flexed the most (you can feel the muscle is working
> when
> > > keeping
> > > > that position) the muscle force Fm is the lowest. It is
> logical
> > to
> > > me
> > > > that the muscle should act the oposite way. The result can
be
> > seen
> > > in
> > > > the attached zipped files which are Bitmapes figures. One is
> Fm
> > of
> > > > Biseps_brachii_caput_breve, the other is position of the FE
> > joint.
> > > >
> > > > Best Regards
> > > > Signe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Yahoo! Mail
> > > > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the
> AnyBody
> > Modeling System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other
users
> > are welcome to join the discussions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > > Biomedical engineering degree Biomedical engineering
> > career Biomedical engineering program Biomedical
engineering
> > schools Biomedical engineering jobs Biomedical engineering
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > >
> > > Visit your group “anyscript” on the web.
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > anyscript-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Yahoo! Mail
> > > Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the
AnyBody
> Modeling System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other users
> are welcome to join the discussions.
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Biomedical engineering degree Biomedical engineering
> career Biomedical engineering program Biomedical engineering
> schools Biomedical engineering jobs Biomedical engineering
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group “anyscript” on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > anyscript-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> AnyBody Technology provides free support on the use of the AnyBody
Modeling System and the Scripting language AnyScript. Other users
are welcome to join the discussions.
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Biomedical engineering degree Biomedical engineering
career Biomedical engineering program Biomedical engineering
schools Biomedical engineering jobs Biomedical engineering
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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