Scaling Question

system · September 7, 2007, 2:12am

I am having a problem scaling my skeleton to reflect my actual
subject. I am using the AnyAnne scaling and have changed the mass and
height to be representative of a 5’9" (1.75 m), ~150 lb female
wheelchair user. This individual happens to have shorter arms, and
the reflective markers in 3D space demonstrate this (see the uploaded
file “FemaleWCModelScale”). How do I go about reflecting the fact
that this individual’s body doesn’t scale appropriately and has short
arms (I have the upper arm length and lower arm lengths from
anthropometric data we collect)? Is it as easy as manually changing
the segment length values in the Arm3D files? How many files have to
be changed?

Thank you for you help,
Sarah

system · September 7, 2007, 9:00am

Hi Sarah

In the bottom of the AnyAnne.any file there is a folder named
AnthroSegmentLengths, this folder contains the segments lengths used
if you are using the AnyAnne file. So if your person is of another
size, simply copy the entire file rename it, and insert the proper
lengths in the AnthroSegmentsLengths folder.

I hope this was what you was searching after.

Best regards
SÃ¸ren

— In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, “Sarah R. Sullivan” <sarsulli@…>
wrote:
>
> I am having a problem scaling my skeleton to reflect my actual
> subject. I am using the AnyAnne scaling and have changed the mass
and
> height to be representative of a 5’9" (1.75 m), ~150 lb female
> wheelchair user. This individual happens to have shorter arms, and
> the reflective markers in 3D space demonstrate this (see the
uploaded
> file “FemaleWCModelScale”). How do I go about reflecting the fact
> that this individual’s body doesn’t scale appropriately and has
short
> arms (I have the upper arm length and lower arm lengths from
> anthropometric data we collect)? Is it as easy as manually
changing
> the segment length values in the Arm3D files? How many files have
to
> be changed?
>
> Thank you for you help,
> Sarah
>

system · September 10, 2007, 2:18pm

Hi S?ren,

I’m sorry, but I’m still a little confused. At the bottom of the AnyAnne file,
I have changed the lengths of the upper and lower arm to 0.235 and 0.220 meters,
respectively. When I run the model and double click on the humerus length
(following the path MyArm/HumanModel/Right/ShoulderArm/Seg/Humerus/Length), the
length is still 0.340047. (However, if I go into the Scaling folder to the
AnthroSegmentLengths, the upper and lower arm length values are correctly
reflected). Visually in the model view it appears not to have changed as well.
Changing the values in the AnthroSegmentsLengths in the AnyAnne file doesn’t
appear to change the lengths of the humerus/radius/ulna. And when it loads you
can clearly see that the virtual markers don’t line up (at all closely) with the
physical body.

Any other suggestions? Is this going to have to be changed in the BRep - where
the length of the humerus is defined (AnyVar Length =
((gh.sRel[1]-fe.sRel[1])^2)^0.5)? How will changing the Seg file in Arm3D
affect the rest of the upper body?

Thank you for your help,
Sarah

-----Original Message-----

> Date: Fri Sep 07 03:00:42 EDT 2007
> From: “AnyBody Support” <support@anybodytech.com>
> Subject: [AnyScript] Re: Scaling Question
> To: anyscript@yahoogroups.com
>
> Hi Sarah
>
> In the bottom of the AnyAnne.any file there is a folder named
> AnthroSegmentLengths, this folder contains the segments lengths used
> if you are using the AnyAnne file. So if your person is of another
> size, simply copy the entire file rename it, and insert the proper
> lengths in the AnthroSegmentsLengths folder.
>
> I hope this was what you was searching after.
>
> Best regards
> S?ren
>
>
> — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, “Sarah R. Sullivan” <sarsulli@…>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am having a problem scaling my skeleton to reflect my actual
> > subject. I am using the AnyAnne scaling and have changed the mass
> and
> > height to be representative of a 5’9" (1.75 m), ~150 lb female
> > wheelchair user. This individual happens to have shorter arms, and
> > the reflective markers in 3D space demonstrate this (see the
> uploaded
> > file “FemaleWCModelScale”). How do I go about reflecting the fact
> > that this individual’s body doesn’t scale appropriately and has
> short
> > arms (I have the upper arm length and lower arm lengths from
> > anthropometric data we collect)? Is it as easy as manually
> changing
> > the segment length values in the Arm3D files? How many files have
> to
> > be changed?
> >
> > Thank you for you help,
> > Sarah
> >
>
>

system · September 10, 2007, 2:49pm

Hi Sarah

It sounds to me as you might be using the ScalingStandard.any
scaling law?
This means that the model will not be scaled at all, i guess you
could use this file and at the same time also specify a file like
AnyAnne.any, this would exactly explain the behaviour you have seen.

The solution is to use one of the other scalinglaws like
ScalingLenghMassFat.any or ScalingUniform.any instead of
ScalingStandard.any (if this is what you are using now)

It should not be needed to do any changes in the BRep, you can see
the ARep/Aalborg/Gait3D model for an example of this kind of scaling.

Best regards
SÃ¸ren, AnyBody Support

— In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, “Sarah R. Dubowsky” <sarsulli@…>
wrote:
>
> Hi S?ren,
>
> I’m sorry, but I’m still a little confused. At the bottom of the
AnyAnne file, I have changed the lengths of the upper and lower arm
to 0.235 and 0.220 meters, respectively. When I run the model and
double click on the humerus length (following the path
MyArm/HumanModel/Right/ShoulderArm/Seg/Humerus/Length), the length
is still 0.340047. (However, if I go into the Scaling folder to the
AnthroSegmentLengths, the upper and lower arm length values are
correctly reflected). Visually in the model view it appears not to
have changed as well. Changing the values in the
AnthroSegmentsLengths in the AnyAnne file doesn’t appear to change
the lengths of the humerus/radius/ulna. And when it loads you can
clearly see that the virtual markers don’t line up (at all closely)
with the physical body.
>
> Any other suggestions? Is this going to have to be changed in the
BRep - where the length of the humerus is defined (AnyVar Length =
((gh.sRel[1]-fe.sRel[1])^2)^0.5)? How will changing the Seg file in
Arm3D affect the rest of the upper body?
>
> Thank you for your help,
> Sarah
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> > Date: Fri Sep 07 03:00:42 EDT 2007
> > From: “AnyBody Support” <support@…>
> > Subject: [AnyScript] Re: Scaling Question
> > To: anyscript@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Hi Sarah
> >
> > In the bottom of the AnyAnne.any file there is a folder named
> > AnthroSegmentLengths, this folder contains the segments lengths
used
> > if you are using the AnyAnne file. So if your person is of
another
> > size, simply copy the entire file rename it, and insert the
proper
> > lengths in the AnthroSegmentsLengths folder.
> >
> > I hope this was what you was searching after.
> >
> > Best regards
> > S?ren
> >
> >
> > — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, “Sarah R. Sullivan”
<sarsulli@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I am having a problem scaling my skeleton to reflect my actual
> > > subject. I am using the AnyAnne scaling and have changed the
mass
> > and
> > > height to be representative of a 5’9" (1.75 m), ~150 lb female
> > > wheelchair user. This individual happens to have shorter
arms, and
> > > the reflective markers in 3D space demonstrate this (see the
> > uploaded
> > > file “FemaleWCModelScale”). How do I go about reflecting the
fact
> > > that this individual’s body doesn’t scale appropriately and
has
> > short
> > > arms (I have the upper arm length and lower arm lengths from
> > > anthropometric data we collect)? Is it as easy as manually
> > changing
> > > the segment length values in the Arm3D files? How many files
have
> > to
> > > be changed?
> > >
> > > Thank you for you help,
> > > Sarah
> > >
> >
> >
>

system · September 10, 2007, 3:54pm

Hi S?ren,

Thank you for your quick response - I was doing exactly what you thought and had
been using the ScalingStandard law. When I changed it to be the
ScalingLengthMass, everything appears to be scaling as I would anticipate.
Thank you for your help on that!

I have another question now though. When I load my model, my right arm looks
skewed in space (the elbow and shoulder appear to be hyperextending). The left
side looks fine though. When I SetInitialConditions, the model upper and lower
arm correct themselves (the shoulder is extended and the elbow is flexed ready
for propulsion), however the wrist on both sides becomes bent back 180 degrees
into the forearm. I can toggle the Mannequin file to get the right wrist fixed
so that it appears to be in a natural position upon SetInitialConditions, but no
matter how I alter the left wrist extension values, I can’t get it to come close
to being in the correct position (in fact, varying the WristFlexion value
drastically from 0-360 degrees shows very little change).

Any suggestions as to how to get my left wrist in the proper orientation for
analysis? Does the InitialPositions.any file sets the positions for load time,
and the Mannequin.any file sets the positions for the SetInitialConditions
scenario?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Sarah

-----Original Message-----

> Date: Mon Sep 10 08:49:11 EDT 2007
> From: “AnyBody Support” <support@anybodytech.com>
> Subject: [AnyScript] Re: Scaling Question
> To: anyscript@yahoogroups.com
>
> Hi Sarah
>
> It sounds to me as you might be using the ScalingStandard.any
> scaling law?
> This means that the model will not be scaled at all, i guess you
> could use this file and at the same time also specify a file like
> AnyAnne.any, this would exactly explain the behaviour you have seen.
>
> The solution is to use one of the other scalinglaws like
> ScalingLenghMassFat.any or ScalingUniform.any instead of
> ScalingStandard.any (if this is what you are using now)
>
> It should not be needed to do any changes in the BRep, you can see
> the ARep/Aalborg/Gait3D model for an example of this kind of scaling.
>
>
> Best regards
> S?ren, AnyBody Support
>
> — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, “Sarah R. Dubowsky” <sarsulli@…>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi S?ren,
> >
> > I’m sorry, but I’m still a little confused. At the bottom of the
> AnyAnne file, I have changed the lengths of the upper and lower arm
> to 0.235 and 0.220 meters, respectively. When I run the model and
> double click on the humerus length (following the path
> MyArm/HumanModel/Right/ShoulderArm/Seg/Humerus/Length), the length
> is still 0.340047. (However, if I go into the Scaling folder to the
> AnthroSegmentLengths, the upper and lower arm length values are
> correctly reflected). Visually in the model view it appears not to
> have changed as well. Changing the values in the
> AnthroSegmentsLengths in the AnyAnne file doesn’t appear to change
> the lengths of the humerus/radius/ulna. And when it loads you can
> clearly see that the virtual markers don’t line up (at all closely)
> with the physical body.
> >
> > Any other suggestions? Is this going to have to be changed in the
> BRep - where the length of the humerus is defined (AnyVar Length =
> ((gh.sRel[1]-fe.sRel[1])^2)^0.5)? How will changing the Seg file in
> Arm3D affect the rest of the upper body?
> >
> > Thank you for your help,
> > Sarah
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> > > Date: Fri Sep 07 03:00:42 EDT 2007
> > > From: “AnyBody Support” <support@…>
> > > Subject: [AnyScript] Re: Scaling Question
> > > To: anyscript@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Hi Sarah
> > >
> > > In the bottom of the AnyAnne.any file there is a folder named
> > > AnthroSegmentLengths, this folder contains the segments lengths
> used
> > > if you are using the AnyAnne file. So if your person is of
> another
> > > size, simply copy the entire file rename it, and insert the
> proper
> > > lengths in the AnthroSegmentsLengths folder.
> > >
> > > I hope this was what you was searching after.
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > S?ren
> > >
> > >
> > > — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, “Sarah R. Sullivan”
> <sarsulli@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am having a problem scaling my skeleton to reflect my actual
> > > > subject. I am using the AnyAnne scaling and have changed the
> mass
> > > and
> > > > height to be representative of a 5’9" (1.75 m), ~150 lb female
> > > > wheelchair user. This individual happens to have shorter
> arms, and
> > > > the reflective markers in 3D space demonstrate this (see the
> > > uploaded
> > > > file “FemaleWCModelScale”). How do I go about reflecting the
> fact
> > > > that this individual’s body doesn’t scale appropriately and
> has
> > > short
> > > > arms (I have the upper arm length and lower arm lengths from
> > > > anthropometric data we collect)? Is it as easy as manually
> > > changing
> > > > the segment length values in the Arm3D files? How many files
> have
> > > to
> > > > be changed?
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for you help,
> > > > Sarah
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

system · September 11, 2007, 9:25am

Hi Sarah

When you load the model the load time positions will be created by
the InitialPosition.any file, which makes use of the joint angles in
the Mannequin.any file.

When you run the SetinitialCondition analysis is solves the first
step of the analysis, and it not more makes use of the joint angles
in the Mannequin.any unless these angles are used in the
JointAnyDriver.any file, but i guess this is not the case here.

So the remedy is to come up with a good quess on the intitial
positions as you already know. For this purpose we have developed
the file “MannequinValuesFromModel.any”, which makes it a little
easier to get the model into the right position. Here is an
explanation of its use:

1 Makes sure the line “MannequinValuesFromModel.any” is active in
the Main file.
2 load the model
3 run SetInitialConditions
4 Open the folder Main.???.HumanModel.MannequinValuesFromModel
5 Double click the folder named MannequinValuesFromModel, this will
dump several lines to the info window
6 Copy these lines into the Mannequin.any file.
7 Make a search and replace, replacing “_” with " "
8 reload the model

This procedure is good if you have model where the kinematics are
runnig but needs finetuning. It will solve the kinematics and dump
the joint angles to the mannequin.any file. This ensures that next
time the model is loaded it will be in the position of the first
timestep. Then it can be that due to the better guess on all the
other segment positions the left hand issue could be solved, if not
you need to play around with it’s angle. But having the other joint
angles as close as possible to the end position will hopefully make
this easier.

Best regards
SÃ¸ren, AnyBody Support

— In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, “Sarah R. Dubowsky” <sarsulli@…>
wrote:
>
> Hi S?ren,
>
> Thank you for your quick response - I was doing exactly what you
thought and had been using the ScalingStandard law. When I changed
it to be the ScalingLengthMass, everything appears to be scaling as
I would anticipate. Thank you for your help on that!
>
> I have another question now though. When I load my model, my
right arm looks skewed in space (the elbow and shoulder appear to be
hyperextending). The left side looks fine though. When I
SetInitialConditions, the model upper and lower arm correct
themselves (the shoulder is extended and the elbow is flexed ready
for propulsion), however the wrist on both sides becomes bent back
180 degrees into the forearm. I can toggle the Mannequin file to
get the right wrist fixed so that it appears to be in a natural
position upon SetInitialConditions, but no matter how I alter the
left wrist extension values, I can’t get it to come close to being
in the correct position (in fact, varying the WristFlexion value
drastically from 0-360 degrees shows very little change).
>
> Any suggestions as to how to get my left wrist in the proper
orientation for analysis? Does the InitialPositions.any file sets
the positions for load time, and the Mannequin.any file sets the
positions for the SetInitialConditions scenario?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> Sarah
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> > Date: Mon Sep 10 08:49:11 EDT 2007
> > From: “AnyBody Support” <support@…>
> > Subject: [AnyScript] Re: Scaling Question
> > To: anyscript@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Hi Sarah
> >
> > It sounds to me as you might be using the ScalingStandard.any
> > scaling law?
> > This means that the model will not be scaled at all, i guess you
> > could use this file and at the same time also specify a file
like
> > AnyAnne.any, this would exactly explain the behaviour you have
seen.
> >
> > The solution is to use one of the other scalinglaws like
> > ScalingLenghMassFat.any or ScalingUniform.any instead of
> > ScalingStandard.any (if this is what you are using now)
> >
> > It should not be needed to do any changes in the BRep, you can
see
> > the ARep/Aalborg/Gait3D model for an example of this kind of
scaling.
> >
> >
> > Best regards
> > S?ren, AnyBody Support
> >
> > — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, “Sarah R. Dubowsky”
<sarsulli@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi S?ren,
> > >
> > > I’m sorry, but I’m still a little confused. At the bottom of
the
> > AnyAnne file, I have changed the lengths of the upper and lower
arm
> > to 0.235 and 0.220 meters, respectively. When I run the model
and
> > double click on the humerus length (following the path
> > MyArm/HumanModel/Right/ShoulderArm/Seg/Humerus/Length), the
length
> > is still 0.340047. (However, if I go into the Scaling folder to
the
> > AnthroSegmentLengths, the upper and lower arm length values are
> > correctly reflected). Visually in the model view it appears not
to
> > have changed as well. Changing the values in the
> > AnthroSegmentsLengths in the AnyAnne file doesn’t appear to
change
> > the lengths of the humerus/radius/ulna. And when it loads you
can
> > clearly see that the virtual markers don’t line up (at all
closely)
> > with the physical body.
> > >
> > > Any other suggestions? Is this going to have to be changed in
the
> > BRep - where the length of the humerus is defined (AnyVar Length

> > ((gh.sRel[1]-fe.sRel[1])^2)^0.5)? How will changing the Seg
file in
> > Arm3D affect the rest of the upper body?
> > >
> > > Thank you for your help,
> > > Sarah
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > > Date: Fri Sep 07 03:00:42 EDT 2007
> > > > From: “AnyBody Support” <support@>
> > > > Subject: [AnyScript] Re: Scaling Question
> > > > To: anyscript@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > Hi Sarah
> > > >
> > > > In the bottom of the AnyAnne.any file there is a folder
named
> > > > AnthroSegmentLengths, this folder contains the segments
lengths
> > used
> > > > if you are using the AnyAnne file. So if your person is of
> > another
> > > > size, simply copy the entire file rename it, and insert the
> > proper
> > > > lengths in the AnthroSegmentsLengths folder.
> > > >
> > > > I hope this was what you was searching after.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > > S?ren
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > — In anyscript@yahoogroups.com, “Sarah R. Sullivan”
> > <sarsulli@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I am having a problem scaling my skeleton to reflect my
actual
> > > > > subject. I am using the AnyAnne scaling and have changed
the
> > mass
> > > > and
> > > > > height to be representative of a 5’9" (1.75 m), ~150 lb
female
> > > > > wheelchair user. This individual happens to have shorter
> > arms, and
> > > > > the reflective markers in 3D space demonstrate this (see
the
> > > > uploaded
> > > > > file “FemaleWCModelScale”). How do I go about reflecting
the
> > fact
> > > > > that this individual’s body doesn’t scale appropriately
and
> > has
> > > > short
> > > > > arms (I have the upper arm length and lower arm lengths
from
> > > > > anthropometric data we collect)? Is it as easy as
manually
> > > > changing
> > > > > the segment length values in the Arm3D files? How many
files
> > have
> > > > to
> > > > > be changed?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you for you help,
> > > > > Sarah
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>